Showing Their Mettle

Originally published on June 6, 2003

By Dan Aquilante
New York Post

Walter Becker and Donald Fagen – known collectively as Steely Dan – are among the finest musical minds of a generation. Few would dispute their credentials, accolades and extensive body of work.

So when you ask these elder statesmen to say something suitably profound, you’re knocked off balance when Fagen says, “B – – – me,” adding, “Nobody’s going to accuse either of us of being mature.”

Guess not.

At 53 and 55, respectively, Becker and Fagen are still cool, loose and more than a little crazy.

Speaking about their much-belated induction into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame in 2001, Becker told The Post, “We do a lot better with failure than we do with success. We know how to handle rejection.”

Fagen loves the fame and appreciates the fans, but acknowledges, “A lot of people really despise Steely Dan.”

“Donald and I were jazz fans in high school,” Becker explains. “We were outcasts. We were the poor, sad kids who brought Sarah Vaughn records to their first junior high school party. That kind of stuff warps you for life.”

That warp has suited these pals since the ’60s.

They translated their twisted personalities and artistic aesthetic into Pretzel Logic; Katy Lied; their masterpiece, Aja; and their dark-horse 2000 Grammy winner, Two Against Nature.

On Tuesday, Fagen and Becker will try to reel in the ears one more time with a new disc, Everything Must Go.

These days, they live far apart – Becker’s in Manhattan, Fagen’s in Hawaii – but in a three-way conversation with them, it’s hard not to feel like a third wheel, so well do the guys ricochet off one another.

Post: After that surprise Grammy win, was there more pressure on you for this album?

Fagen: The Grammy win didn’t change our situation very much. It was a delightful surprise for us – and our fans – but we just kept working along.

Becker: We’re compulsive when we do these records.

Fagen: We answer to a higher law.

Becker: Higher than the Grammys.

Post: What’s higher in music?

Fagen: Those guys in Oasis.

Becker: The celestial companionship of the great composers.

Fagen: That’s right, the music of the spheres.

Post: Your fans would compare your compositions to that.

Becker: I don’t know about that, but they’re entitled to their opinion.

Fagen: We give it the old college try.

Post: Some lyrics in your songs are cryptic enough to have inspired a Steely Dan dictionary on the Internet. Have you seen it?

Becker: That dictionary isn’t our doing.

Fagen: Does it have words from future songs in it?

Becker: I can see how some people in a younger generation might want a reference work.

Post: Do you feel there’s a generation gap?

Becker: I haven’t noticed a huge change in music since the late ’50s, except for perhaps reggae and maybe disco.

Fagen: We embrace the new generation of fans, given half a chance.

Becker: Look at rap – it’s just other kinds of music with talking.

Post: Is there any rap in Steely Dan’s future?

Fagen: Actually, I think the tune that Walter sings on the new record could be classified in there.

Post: Walter, do you agree?

Becker: I know what he means. I think it’s on its way to there, but I don’t think it will satisfy any rap fans.

Fagen: Talking-blues and rap are not that dissimilar.

Post: Steely Dan is known for stepping outside musical boundaries. Have you ever gone too far?

Fagen: I’d like to think we’re always evolving in some way. We say before we start albums, “Let’s do something really crazy, something really different.” That doesn’t seem to happen. The substance of the songs always takes over and that other stuff doesn’t seem that important.

Post: How have you changed personally? Donald, have you changed?

Fagen: Yeah, I have a lot more lower-back pain.

Becker: This is going to sound silly, but you really have to change to stay the same. To keep the core things that you care about in the same place in your life, you have to evolve.

Post: For example?

Becker: I couldn’t continue being a musician and do what I do without developing more skill. Otherwise, people would get bored with me.

Fagen: If we didn’t evolve, we wouldn’t have the fans we have now.

Becker: Look at it this way – our goals are the same, the methodology has changed.

Post: Are you the same guys who got up 25 years ago and had coffee and a cigarette?

Becker: No. I switched to tea.

Fagen: I still drink coffee, but I don’t smoke cigarettes.

Becker: So there.

Fagen: There were certain habits we had in the days of our reckless youth that we’ve moved on from.

Post: Is there any reckless youth left?

Becker: Close observers of my behavior assure me it’s there. My wife complains about that all the time. Judging from the intensity with which some young people hold on to their views, I would say we’re younger than they are.

Fagen: When you get to be our age, kids start to seem square.

Becker: Kids are so concerned with their clothes and s – – – like that. I feel like telling them to grow up.

Post: That said, what’s important to you now that you’ve grown up?

Fagen: It’s the three Ms.

Becker: Tell him, Donald.

Fagen: I can’t.

Post: Sure you can.

Fagen: I have to tell a joke then. This guy’s interviewing an 85-year-old blues musician and he asks, “How do you keep doing it after all these years?” The old blues guy says, “It’s the three Ms – you know, mmmusic, mmmoney and mmmwomen.”

Post: Is that why you’re still making music together?

Becker: You can’t take a joke literally.

Fagen: But it’s something to shoot for.

 

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